Updated: 23 July 1998

AD&D

Letter for T.S.R.:

Hi!

Don't be surprised about this letter, but after discovering that the questions dated back from 1996, I liked more to send you an Email.

And as I will need tables, I prefered to send you an HTML document, that you can read with any decent Browser.

My name is Raoul Borges. I have bought so much 2nd Edition AD&D supplements I don't have room to put them. The same can be said about D&D (my brother is a fan, and we couldn't update him up to the 2nd Edition AD&D...)

: )

I stopped playing AD&D since some years (must be when the SAGA rules for DragonLance were released). I must say that DragonLance and the novels changed the way I role-played, be it as a player, or as a D.M. (I must thank the same novels, because they taught me english better than any teacher!).

I even started a whole campaign for DragonLance, starting in 367 AC. I have invested a lot in this campaign. Inspired by the novels and the scenario, I created the PCs all the while asking the players what they would like to play, DMs and players alike giving them their appearance, or their quircks, molding them in such a way they would be accepted by me and by my players, who loved them very much, in the end. Between each scenarii, I even wrote for each character a little story (30 pages!) where the players could discover their characters, as well as find clues and see important scenes happening to them. At first, they were surprised, but soon, I discovered they loved it, too, and it even became a kind of present given to them at their birthday.

But in the same time, we played another RPG. Vampire: The Masquerade was different than AD&D, and while I was only player at the game (at the time), I was impressed by the concept, as well as by the rules, so simple and so powerful!

My DragonLance campaign's first blood was drawn when I asked my players a ''Perception Roll''...

Then, other factors made me having to choose between AD&D, and Vampire. The choice was definitive when I saw the SAGA rules. I don't say they weren't cool. But Card Games are not for me. And Magic had become so... ridiculous. And seeing the old Caramon and Tika, and Goldmoon surviving up to ages when they should have been dead was so... ridiculous (again...).

The concept of adaptative magic had been explored in various games. I believe Mage: The Ascension succeeded the best shot. The SAGA system offered the same thing, but limited to 3 spheres only!!! I'm not talking about the fact that you needed sufficient attributes to use a shield, or wear an armor!!! It was the worst AD&D part introduced into a system that should have been simple (at first sight, it was) and realistic (it wasn't).

So you are asking if a 3rd Edition of AD&D is needed?

I say yes. The 1st Edition was what it was. I won't talk about it, but just say it was the 2nd Edition that made us update from D&D to AD&D, not the 1st.

The 2nd Edition was a good cleaning of the rules. Real good idea. The Illusionist and Druids had no real reason to exist, but as real subclasses of the Magic-users and Priests.

The OPTIONS were a good idea, too. Dividing the abilities into sub-abilities, while remaining totally compatible with the old system was a good thing.

The 3rd Edition of AD&D should keep what made AD&D great:

  • Global system for any Fantasy Setting.
  • Multiple worlds with few way of interactions.
  • A great list of spells.
  • Four major Classes.
And anyway, remain compatible with the 2nd Edition but only to avoid lenghty and boring conversions bewteen 3rd and 2nd Ed. supplements. Rules can change. But NPCs and Magical Objects should remain compatible.

But the 3rd Edition should forget those stupid and unrealistic rules:

  • Level Limitation for Non-Humans (Replace it with a need for 1.5 or even twice the XPs needed).
  • No possible Classe Combination for Humans (and non-Humans) but for exceptions. So anyone should be able to be a Warrior-Mage, but stupid things like Paladin-Thief should be limited (exceptions could be made if the Paladin-Thief didn't use Backstab and other un-paladin-like abilities: After all, Climbing Walls is not Evil per se...).
  • Forever-Fixed character classes: If I want my Warrior character to learn magic a bit, I should be able to raise it to the 2nd Level Mage under the tutelage of a master, and all the while continue his Warrior Class

Here is the answers to your questions. You will find after home-rules that perhaps you already know, but it doesn't hurt. After all, even if I don't play AD&D anymore, I still love this game. It only needs to be cleaned up...

T.S.R. QUESTIONS:

  1. What is your age?
    25.
  2. What is your gender?
    Male.
  3. If you are a student, what grade are you in?
    Err... In france I'm finishing a Maitrise, grade before the last grade of french university before a thesis. Consider it as 4 years after entry into University.
  4. How many years have you been playing RPGs?
    12 years.
  5. How many AD&D? game products have you bought in the last year?
    None (but novels, like ''the Soulforge'').
  6. Do you use miniature figures during role-playing games?
    No.
  7. How often do you play FRPGs?
    Once a week.
  8. How long is your typical game session?
    4-6 hours.
  9. Where do you play?
    At a friend's home.
  10. How many players (including DM) attend your typical AD&D game session?
    4 to 6 players and DM.
  11. How many different RPGs have you played more than once in the last year?
    2.
  12. What aspects of play do you enjoy most? In order from ''most'' to ''less'':
    1. Roleplaying my character interacting with other characters.
    2. Creating memorable moments in play
    3. Investigating mysteries and figuring out where the plot is going
    4. Creating my character's history
    5. Working out puzzles and tactical problems
    6. Going on epic adventures that change the history of the campaign world
  13. What is our favorite PC race?
    Vampire. (YOU asked it...)
  14. What is your favorite class?
    Mage, with a touch of thief ablities.
  15. Which ability score generation system do you prefer?
    Adjusted subabilities as in Skills & Powers (Method VII: 75 points).

    Welcome to Quality Control

  16. What do you think of the quality of AD&D game products in the last two years?
    I don't know.
  17. The thing I like best about the AD&D game is:
    I get to make decisions that affect what happens in the game.
  18. My biggest problem with the AD&D game is:
    The rules are too complex.
    (Err... In truth, the rules are too unrealistic)
  19. If you were starting a fantasy role-playing group this week, would you use the AD&D system?
    3 (no-yes).
  20. If you were starting a role-playing group this week in any genre, would you use the AD&D system?
    1 (no).
  21. If not, why not?
    By order of importance:
    1. Rules aren't realistic enough
    2. rules are too complex
    3. there are too many rules
  22. Do you have trouble understanding the AD&D game rules?
    5 (None).
  23. Do you have trouble relocating rules that you know you've read in the rulebooks?
    4 (sometimes-never).
  24. Indicate how frequently you use the following books (1 = never, 5 = constantly).
    • Player's Handbook: 5
    • Dungeon Master Guide: 3
    • Monstrous Manual: 4
    • Tome of Magic: 3
    • Book of Artifacts: 2
    • Legends & Lore: 2
    • Arms and Equipment Guide: 1
    • Complete Class PHBRs: 2
    • Complete Racial PHBRs: 2
    • DMGR books: 2
    • Combat & Tactics: 3
    • Skills & Powers: 4
    • Spells & Magic: 4
    • High-Level Campaigns: 1

    Anyone Can Be A Editor

  25. How important are illustrations in the rule books?
    4 (Almost very).
  26. What would be the best way to split the rules for the AD&D game?
    As it is now (One Player, one DMG and one Monster Manual).
  27. Should the rules be:
    1 (short, simple)
  28. Should the language of the rules be:
    3 (chatty/technical)

    I'd Love To Change the World

  29. How much revision does the AD&D game need, anyway?
    4 (much)
  30. How much fixing do the various aspects of the game need? (A little - A lot)
    • Balance: 2
    • Game mechanics: 3
    • Proliferation of rules: 5
    • Combat: 2
    • Magic: 2
    • Alignment: 1
    • Encumbrance: 1
    • Experience points: 4
    • Weapon proficiencies: 5
    • Nonweapon proficiencies: 5
    • Weapon specialization: 5
  31. What sort of revision does the game need?
    Significant new development to keep this 20-year-old game competitive with the new breed of RPGs.
  32. Should the core AD&D rules cover:
    • ships: yes
    • castles/sieges: yes
    • random dungeons: yes
    • mapping advice: yes
    • 3D mapping advice: yes
    • discussion of the planes: yes
    • monster summoning tables: no
    • conversions to other eras: yes

    I Had This Character Once . . .

  33. How many minutes should it take to create a character?
    10.
  34. Character generation should be based not on dice rolls but on a point-purchase system.
    5 (YES!).
  35. What should be the upper limit on PC ability scores?
    18 for humans. Varying for other races.
  36. Should demihumans have level limits?
    Never.
    (Try this instead: multiply the necessary XPs to increase level from 0.2 for kobolds to 3 for High Elves -- Inspiration: Gazeeter: Orc of Thar).
  37. Nonweapon proficiencies are a great idea.
    5 (yes).
  38. Nonweapon proficiencies work really well in play.
    2 (No).
  39. Should nonweapon proficiencies be very specialized, or very broad?
    4 (broad).
  40. All ability score bonuses and penalties should be standardized.
    5 (YES!)
  41. Ability checks should replace things like "bend bars/lift gates" rolls.
    5 (YES!)
  42. Saving throws should be replaced with ability checks.
    5 (YES!)
    (With Bonuses/Maluses from Levels).
  43. The existing group/class structure should be replaced with a streamlined class/kit structure of only four classes, each with appropriate kits.
    3 (almost: See after).
  44. Exceptional Strength scores should be eliminated. 5 (YES!)
  45. Characters with low scores need a boost; the XP bonus for high prime requisite scores should be reversed and awarded instead to characters with low prime requisite scores.
    1 (no)
  46. Do 1st level characters need to be beefed up?
    1 (no)
  47. Proficiency lists should be reduced to only those entries that are important and reasonable for heroic adventurers.
    1 (NO!)
  48. Should the power baseline be redrawn as it currently stands, or should some character types have power stripped away?
    Exchange the d8 Hit Dices for the priests by d6. In the same reasonning, the thief's should be increased from d6 to d8.

    If I Ran the Zoo

  49. Armor class numbers should be reversed to begin at 0 and run upward.
    I don't care.
  50. Armor class numbers should be reversed to begin at 11 and run upward (then the AC becomes the to-hit number, THAC0 becomes a bonus to hit).
    5 (YES!!!)
  51. Dexterity should give bonuses and penalties to hit. 4 (almost yes).
  52. All dice rolls in the game (except damage) should be standardized to a d20, with high rolls being good and low rolls being bad.
    5 (yes).
  53. There should be some sort of universal mechanism for resolving everything in the game, instead of the variety of different methods currently used.
    4 (almost yes).
  54. The basis of AD&D is tables; the game needs more tables for resolving things and less emphasis on colorless "beat this number" dice rolling.
    1 (no).
  55. Experience point totals should be divided by 100.
    1 (no).
  56. Experience points should be handed out for:
    • finding treasure: NO!
    • story awards: YES!
    • doing things appropriate to the character's class: yes.
  57. The system for figuring out how many XPs a monster is worth is way too subjective and badly in need of standardization.
    1 (no).
  58. The generic nature of AD&D should be emphasized, with kits providing world-specific flavor for characters.
    4 (almost yes)
  59. The generic nature of core AD&D should be emphasized by cutting the spell lists to the minimum, with additional spells provided as appropriate in campaign settings.
    4 (almost yes)
  60. The generic nature of core AD&D should be emphasized by cutting the weapon lists to the standard, generic weapons, with unusual types restricted to specific campaigns.
    4 (almost yes)
  61. The World of Greyhawk should be brought back as the generic, default AD&D setting.
    1 (NOOOOOOOOO!)
    (While I like more DragonLance, I believe the Forgotten Realms are a best generic, default AD&D setting.)
  62. TSR's code of ethics is for panty-waists. AD&D products need more adult themes.
    5 (yes).
    (Hey! Your games are, basically, about heroic players killing monsters and stealing their treasures. While everyone like to believe it to be for the ''greater good'', it's still evil per se!!!
    Mature players should explore heroism as a whole, including the actions that are evil, but that can lead to a greater good. And that apparently good actions could be evil ones (remember the civilized Goblin Nojheim, in the novel ''Dark Mirror'', featuring Drizzt Do'Urden). In the same way or reasonning, players should be able to be the evil guys, as authorized by the Alignements. Don't create rules to limit this. The fun is about playing interesting characters, not lawful-good-heroic paladins. After all, Raistlin and Strahd could have been great PCs. Even Jander Sunstar was evil in his own way, while remaining good as a whole.
    By living situations from all the sides, they can learn more about themselves and test the principles they believe to be good.
  63. Should the PHB include a list of suggested reading for inspiration?
    5 (yes)

You will find below suggestion that should have led to a personnal 3rd Edition of AD&D. I didn't test them because I gave up and turned to the Storyteller System from White Wolf Game Studio.

By the way: Try this Storyteller system. You will find this system is great indeed!!! You can do anything. It is even possible to play a DragonLance campaign under this system! But the system has one flaw: WW system is too slow when it comes to combat. AD&D is much more faster.

AD&D's background is unique, too. And that is AD&D's strengh. Keep it, and don't try to copy others (The Bloodline idea from Birthright had a very Vampire Antediluvian's look...). FR, DL and Ravenloft have no equivalent! Keep them up!

The difficulty is this:

  • Update your own system.
  • Keep the speed in combat.
  • Keep the system compatible with the last editions.
... and I think you will have your players back.

HOME RULES:

The great idea would be to make each classe, each proficiency and every thing (Thac0, Ability, Saving Throw) an Ability with levels. The cool thing would be using XPs to increase the said Ability. But it would be difficult to achieve balance, and would remove part of the compatibility.

Another way is a lesser change:

About Classes:

AD&D should still be divided in classes. Five, to be exact.

  • Fighter
  • Thief
  • Magician
  • Priest
  • Psionicist
These classes shouldn't be considered static, but more like proficiencies. The XPs should be used to increase in any class wanted by the character (if teaching or study, or any way permit this).

To be a Fighter would let you better your physical fighting abilities. No other class you let you increase your Thaco, or learn more weapons, etc.

To be a Thief would let you increase some (or all) the Thief Abilities, including Backstab, but also anything from Pick Pocket and Tunneling. Ranger-like Abilities should be included here.

To be a Magician would let you cast Magical Spells. See after for Home Rules.

To be a Priest would let you use the Divine powers, gift of your God. That means Spells, but also special Abilities. Paladin-like kits could be included here.

To be Psionicist would let you use the power of you own mind, that is Psionic Disciplines.

A character would be composed of a level in each Classe. For example, Raistlin could be considered Fighter 3 and Mage 20. Giltanas could be considered Fighter 7, Mage 3 and Thief 4.

About Races:

Standard. Non Standard. Monsters. Undead. Gods?

Titre 2:

Raoul ''Violence'' Borges
paercebal@hotmail.com






Lance

Go to T.S.R. Home Page AD&D, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, etc. are trademarks from T.S.R. inc. All rights reserved. Every information in the Légions d'Augias Homepage is unofficial. The LdA members are not working for T.S.R.. These are works of AD&D fans for AD&D fans.

The mention of or reference to any company or product in these pages is not a challenge to the trademark or copyright concerned.

These products use the supernatural and fantasy for settings, characters and themes. All mystical and supernatural elements are fiction and intended for entertainment purposes only. Reader discretion is advised.

Check out T.S.R. online at http://www.tsr.com.